In the podcast Top or Bottom? we invite both couples and experts to join us. In the fourth episode, our guest is Tony Lashden — a writer, researcher, and the founder of a writing lab.
Tony’s primary identity is that of a queer-feminist activist and the founder of a feminist queer initiative in Belarus. Tony also identifies as a non-binary and pansexual queer person. All of these identities are deeply meaningful and important to them.
“Last week I had a conversation with a wonderful lesbian writer named Sveta Lukyanova. We were recording a podcast about literature. She invited me to talk about one of my queer essays”.
This essay is part of a collection titled “On Good Days I’m a Beast”, dedicated to women’s sexuality in its various expressions. Since Tony’s essay opens the collection, many people read it first.
“And last year there was a whole series of situations where different lesbians recorded videos for me — sitting with their girlfriends, reading this essay aloud. That was really touching for me”, says Tony.
“The essay has a very manifesto-like nature. It explores how cunnilingus — and oral sex in general between people with vulvas — can be a source of deep pleasure, and how this practice is often devalued within the heteropatriarchy. When cunnilingus is interpreted through a heterosexual lens, women are often left disappointed. They may have expectations of some sort of ‘orgasmic cosmos’, but that often doesn’t happen in reality. As a result, they may avoid oral intimacy or sex altogether — because it’s wrapped in frustration, in a feeling that something’s ‘off’ or ‘wrong’. And there’s no shared language to talk about it, no way to explain what would feel right”.
Tony adds that within WLW (woman-loving-woman) relationships, oral sex often becomes a kind of gateway into intimacy, and women rarely abandon this practice later on.
Pansexuality is a term that describes people whose sexual attraction is not dependent on gender or assigned anatomical sex. Pansexuality and bisexuality are often viewed as interchangeable terms, but there’s ongoing debate about whether they truly mean the same thing. Tony emphasizes that their sexual desire does not depend on a person’s gender identity or anatomical characteristics, nor on the combination of someone’s gender expression and genitals. For them, pansexuality is exactly about that. However, since people sometimes don’t understand the distinction and ask whether that means they are bisexual, Tony often replies affirmatively.
But it’s important to note that for some people, the difference between these terms is crucial. There are pansexual individuals who would never call themselves bisexual — and vice versa.
The long-standing debate in terminology concerns whether sexual attraction toward non-binary people and trans individuals — for example, those who are not transitioning or are not altering their bodies or appearance — falls under the term bisexuality. In fact, the earliest manifestos about bisexuality, written in the 1980s and 1990s by bisexual people when the term first entered public discourse, explicitly included sexual attraction to transgender people. The word “bi” is not about “two” (as in male and female), but rather about being positioned between heterosexuality and homosexuality, aiming to show that “bi” connects or transcends both.
Another important topic to discuss is the challenges faced by homosexual people. On the one hand, there’s a reluctance to speak about it, since queer suffering is already heavily represented in the media, and homophobia is still very much present. On the other hand, there’s a kind of “rose-colored glasses” effect — a romanticization of queer relationships that can obscure the real issues.
On one hand, we find ourselves under external pressure due to homophobia and the constant expectation of any misstep; on the other hand, it’s important to talk about the fact that queer people are still just people — and even those who say all the right things can sometimes behave poorly. Homophobic communities tend to attribute any “bad” behavior not to the fact that people are human and make mistakes, but to non-normative identities themselves. It’s difficult to explain, especially in a heated environment, that a person’s behavior is not defined by their identity or sexuality, but by the socialization they went through.
According to Toni, there’s also a lot of pressure on bisexual women, especially those in relationships with other women, who still identify as bisexual. There’s gaslighting that tells them their bisexuality is made up, that they’re just “not fully baked lesbians”. If they’re in a relationship, they are often made to feel like they should be grateful and happy just to be in that relationship, and not question or criticize anything — even when something doesn’t feel right. Or they’re told they should just “choose to be a lesbian”. In Toni’s experience working with queer people, this kind of emotional pressure and manipulation often leads women to seek psychological support.
Trans and non-binary people also often find themselves in difficult relationships. The circle of people who are genuinely accepting of your identity is extremely small. The very possibility of being in a relationship is even more limited. That’s why, when a relationship begins, people may hold onto it simply because “the outside world is even worse” — even if the relationship itself is uncomfortable.
The podcast also touches on the topic of representation of homosexual relationships. For example, in films, the storyline is usually centered around suffering and hardship. So when you suddenly encounter a relationship without drama — it can feel confusing. There’s no reference point for the idea that a relationship can simply be good.
We also discussed in detail the issue of raising children. The problem is that adults often “protect” their children from information about the LGBTQ+ community — not because they’re afraid their children might read too much and turn queer themselves (spoiler: that’s not how it works), but because they’re afraid for themselves and their own feelings. An important stage of self-awareness and identity formation gets hidden away, and in this situation, everyone thinks about how adults will feel — but no one thinks about the child’s emotions.
Suicide statistics indicate that some teenagers choose to end their lives specifically because the world around them refuses to accept them.
If adults are afraid that their child might be part of the LGBTQ+ community, the best approach is actually to provide all the necessary information at home. As Toni adds, first of all, statistically speaking, the child is most likely heterosexual; and secondly, this approach is much safer than when adults start saying nonsense simply because they don’t know the right answers themselves.
It’s important to understand that it is fundamentally wrong to treat the topic of sexuality as something that can be influenced solely by the consumption of information. For example, queer children consume the exact same heteronormative content as everyone else — they go to the same movies, watch the same shows. Often, they even watch the same heterosexual pornography. And if information alone could influence sexuality, they would all end up heterosexual.
The conversation touched on the topic of labels and terminology. Many people are afraid to explore new experiences, even if they deeply want to try something, because they feel that doing so would force them to adopt a label. Tony encourages everyone to explore themselves at home, in a safe environment. It’s important to remember that meaningful connection is not possible through terminology alone. Every word may sound the same, but it means something different to each person.
You can try things and find out what genuinely brings you joy and what doesn’t feel right for you. Within the vast diversity of relationships, you can find inner harmony — but only if there is a sense of comfort. Terminology can even get in the way, because of its stigma or taboo nature.
Only after accepting yourself and your identity can you begin to articulate what exactly you expect from relationships — even if you don’t know what to call it.
If everyone could answer these questions for themselves, there would be more harmony.
“Our task is to create space for everyone, not to tell people how they should live — because the state and patriarchy have already done plenty of that. We just want a break from all those lectures”.
